WikiLeaks is freedom in action

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WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by swiftfoxmark2 on Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:46 am

WikiLeaks is freedom in action
by Vox Day

I write not to condemn Julian Assange, but to praise him. More than that, I write to accuse those so-called conservatives who have waxed hysterical in their contemptible fulminations against Assange and his organization, Wikileaks, of being ideological frauds, enemies of democracy and false friends of human liberty.

One of the favorite accusations made by the totalitarian bootlickers who condemn Assange's free speech is that by making information available to the public about the actions of certain individuals that were recorded by other individuals, he has blood on his hands due to some mysterious transitive property that no one has yet managed to rationally explain. And the idea that an Australian citizen can be a traitor to the United States of America is simply absurd. These are abuses of logic so severe that it is a wonder the corpses of Aristotle, Descartes and Gödel do not spin right out of their graves and tear those making these ridiculous arguments limb-from-limb in righteous zombie-philosopher retribution.

After all, one cannot possibly attempt to pin the blame on WikiLeaks or Mr. Assange for the hypothetical deaths of American informants without first placing the blame on George W. Bush and Barack Obama for those deaths, as well as upon the American intelligence agents who recruited and utilized the informants in addition to the agents who were responsible for recording the information that was later leaked and released by WikiLeaks. And even this would omit placing the blame where it most truly lies: upon the hypothetical killers of the informants.

If one wishes to wrongly assert that Julian Assange has spots of blood from a few nonexistent deaths spotting his hands, one must first admit that George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Donald Rumsfeld and all of those who successfully advocated the Afghan and Iraqi invasions have been swimming in oceans of human blood so long that they have evolved into vampire amphibians complete with gills. Unlike Assange, the deaths for which they are clearly and unambiguously the direct causal factors are not theoretical; the body counts of American soldiers sacrificed to their geopolitical ambitions are real.

It is ironic, given that Assange is an Australian citizen, but WikiLeaks is one of the last defenses that Americans have against the centralized control of communication being exerted by the U.S. government over the citizenry. For how can a supposedly democratic society operate in near-total darkness? How can the will of the people be legitimately expressed when the people are intentionally kept in near-total ignorance by their representatives and servants?

As Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, declared on Fox News, Americans need more WikiLeaks, not less. We need to know more about the crimes being committed by Ben Bernanke and the Federal Reserve, not less. We need to know more about the fraud being perpetrated by the giant banks of the nation, we need to know more about the lies that have permitted two administrations to make targets of our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq and we need to know more about the myriad of ways in which the politicians of both parties have betrayed the trust of the American people.



WorldNetDaily understands the importance of telling the truth in deceitful times, that is why its magazine proudly bears the title "Whistleblower." I hope that every WND reader is wise enough to see through the spurious accusations of those who wish to permit the U.S. government to act in secret and against both the interest and the will of the American people. In the interest of freedom and actual national security, we need a WikiLeaks operating in every state, in every county, in every major city just as we need whistleblowers in every large government organization. Justice may be blind, but the people should never be.

No man who bays for the blood of truth-tellers like Julian Assange can legitimately claim that he is any friend to truth, liberty, the American way or more importantly, the Way. Evil always requires secrecy and darkness in which to operate, and there can be no doubt whatsoever that the individuals behind WikiLeaks, regardless of their personal motivations or individual idiosyncrasies, are acting on the side of the angels in this matter. Conversely, those who attack a man for sharing the truth with the world are without question acting in the service of the father of lies.
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Doc Trock on Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:54 pm

I agree 100%.

I was in the "treason" camp for a while, but something just didn't sit well. I did some thinking, then read some of the cables.

Assange is a hero. God Bless and keep him from the evil empire that is the United State.
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Bladerunner on Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:48 pm

The United States isn't the only nation effected by this. The Russians, for one, don't give a damn whether God blesses and keeps Assange from the U.S., they are none too pleased with this guy's threats to release Kremlin documents, and the Ruskies play rough.

So, what do you suppose follows this breach of diplomatic security? It all occurred on the intenet. Bet we're going to see a major increase in government (not just ours) attempts to control the net. In fact, they are already working on it. Oh well, back to the Pony Express.

BTW, Doc, have you found a refuge to which you can ex-patriate? Or, do you plan to stay here and go down with the ship?
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Doc Trock on Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:22 pm

I'm working very hard to get the hell out. It's not easy to do.

But I think I've found a place. The next step is to visit and look for a bit of land.

And there is no way I'm going to stay in America for the rest of my life, if it continues down the current path. It's not that the US is going downhill....it's that it's far worse than people imagine and I absolutely abhor the government of this once great country. It's no longer great now.....it's a shameful thug of a nation.
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by swiftfoxmark2 on Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:22 am

OT: I still can't believe that attitude got you banned at CC Doc. That's why I left and I expressed as much so to SND. He has yet to respond to me and I haven't bothered to check if there were any threads about it. I doubt that there were any.

Back on topic, I'm thinking of doing a contrasting video on Xtranormal with Vox's article and Barbara Simpson's article (from the same site, published on the same day). The difference in attitude really highlights the true difference between conservatives and libertarians: one is devoted to liberty and freedom while another merely enjoys murder. You'll see what I mean when I finish it.

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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Bladerunner on Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:17 pm

the true difference between conservatives and libertarians: one is devoted to liberty and freedom while another merely enjoys murder . . .
Wow! There's an indictment for the books. Bit ambiguous, don't you think? Which one is "devoted to 'liberty and freedom' "? Is there "another" one besides conservatives and libertarians? Where are the liberals in this equation?
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Doc Trock on Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:06 pm

Bladerunner wrote:
the true difference between conservatives and libertarians: one is devoted to liberty and freedom while another merely enjoys murder . . .
Wow! There's an indictment for the books. Bit ambiguous, don't you think? Which one is "devoted to 'liberty and freedom' "? Is there "another" one besides conservatives and libertarians? Where are the liberals in this equation?

I don't think people in the circles we run in need any education regarding liberals. We're all pretty clear on them. We can spot them, know their tricks, and are unfazed by their arguments. It's the "conservatives" who are such tricky people now. They're the ones who are insuring the status quo is safe, they are the ones who stand in the way of an actual antidote to liberalism.

As for the statement that conservatives merely enjoy murder...I've got to agree. What is it they all clamor for?

War with Iran
War with whomever else needs it (NK?)
Kill the leaker, kill the doper, kill the homosexuals, etc.
The military can do no wrong....and no matter what they do it's for "our freedom."

That all involves killing.

Conservatives love federal power...as long as it is applied in a way that they like. They are scared to death of limiting power....why how would you be able to punish your enemies without all that power?

The funny thing is that they never seem to notice that the people they vote for never deliver the goods. (thank God for that.)

If I was forced to live in either a totally liberal state, or a totally conservative state.....with no alternatives, including suicide, I'd choose the liberal state. At least I wouldn't get murdered for breaking the law in the liberal state. The conservatives would kill me pretty damn quick.

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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Bladerunner on Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:03 pm

Well, I've heard it all now. There is no place to go with this. I had no idea that conservatives were nothing more than a gang of murderers. What at revelation. I may have to rethink my priorities. I reckon if I ever come face to face with a violent criminal or even a suicidal Hadji, I'll just bend over and kiss my arse goodbye. I certainly don't want to be a murderer.

Yep, Doc, apparently we are running in circles. Considering the name of this forum, I must have missed something here.
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Doc Trock on Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:36 pm

Bladerunner wrote:Well, I've heard it all now. There is no place to go with this. I had no idea that conservatives were nothing more than a gang of murderers. What at revelation. I may have to rethink my priorities. I reckon if I ever come face to face with a violent criminal or even a suicidal Hadji, I'll just bend over and kiss my arse goodbye. I certainly don't want to be a murderer.

Yep, Doc, apparently we are running in circles. Considering the name of this forum, I must have missed something here.

Can you name a conservative leader who wasn't hellbent on starting a war? How about a conservative legislator who wasn't hell bent on increasing military/defense spending, come hell or high water?

Lastly, can you name a conservative leader who has ever criticized any act of violence that the US government has committed?

If you can do any of those, you have a valid point. Otherwise, it's merely hurt feelings.
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Bladerunner on Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:09 am

Generalizations don't cut it, Doc. You're entire post above villifying conservatives could be applied equally to liberals (and probably many other ideologies as well). Take this line, for instance: "Conservatives love federal power...as long as it is applied in a way that they like. They are scared to death of limiting power." Not a stretch at all to replace "conservatives" in that sentence with "liberals". Or, "Muslims."

You've thrown a single, one colored blanket over two distinctly opposed ideologies.

You say that conservatives are "the ones who are insuring the status quo is safe . . " Yet, all we hear from the left and Big Sis is our security is assured at the airports, the borders, and elsewhere. What status quo are you talking about?

And, this: "The funny thing is that they [conservatives] never seem to notice that the people they vote for never deliver the goods." Are the Obamabots failing to notice if he is keeping all those grandiose promises he made to get elected? Listening to many of them cry and whine now, from bottom to top, it doesn't sound like it. And, the recent election is glaring proof that many on the right are not happy with those they elected in the past. There is a vast difference between the Ruling Class and the Country Class, regardless of political convictions.

And, finally, this gem: "If I was forced to live in either a totally liberal state, or a totally conservative state.....with no alternatives, including suicide, I'd choose the liberal state. At least I wouldn't get murdered for breaking the law in the liberal state." I wouldn't bet my life on that.

Hoist the mains'l, Doc, go for a beam reach.
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by swiftfoxmark2 on Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:55 am

I would've posted a response to Blade about my stance on conservatives being murderous, but I was puking my guts out yesterday. I'll try and have it out today.

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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Doc Trock on Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:29 pm

Bladerunner wrote:Generalizations don't cut it, Doc. You're entire post above villifying conservatives could be applied equally to liberals (and probably many other ideologies as well). Take this line, for instance: "Conservatives love federal power...as long as it is applied in a way that they like. They are scared to death of limiting power." Not a stretch at all to replace "conservatives" in that sentence with "liberals". Or, "Muslims."

You've thrown a single, one colored blanket over two distinctly opposed ideologies.

You say that conservatives are "the ones who are insuring the status quo is safe . . " Yet, all we hear from the left and Big Sis is our security is assured at the airports, the borders, and elsewhere. What status quo are you talking about?

And, this: "The funny thing is that they [conservatives] never seem to notice that the people they vote for never deliver the goods." Are the Obamabots failing to notice if he is keeping all those grandiose promises he made to get elected? Listening to many of them cry and whine now, from bottom to top, it doesn't sound like it. And, the recent election is glaring proof that many on the right are not happy with those they elected in the past. There is a vast difference between the Ruling Class and the Country Class, regardless of political convictions.

And, finally, this gem: "If I was forced to live in either a totally liberal state, or a totally conservative state.....with no alternatives, including suicide, I'd choose the liberal state. At least I wouldn't get murdered for breaking the law in the liberal state." I wouldn't bet my life on that.

Hoist the mains'l, Doc, go for a beam reach.

Blade, you're correct. We could substitute "liberal" into much of what I said about conservatives and it would be equally accurate. In fact, in many ways, liberals are worse. Radical Muslims are FAR worse.

Obama is disappointing his base as much or more than Bush did his.....and it remains to be seen if they'll support him for a second term. However, I fail to see how that fact has any bearing on conservatives and their behavior. Conservatives should hold themselves to a higher standard.....they're always claiming to have one. Shame on them for pointing to the other guys faults in order to excuse their own!!!

As for my statement here:
And, finally, this gem: "If I was forced to live in either a totally liberal state, or a totally conservative state.....with no alternatives, including suicide, I'd choose the liberal state. At least I wouldn't get murdered for breaking the law in the liberal state."

Look at Singapore. They are a very, very conservative state. They kill people for drug possession, including marijuana, among other things. That nation has some very attractive qualities....they're very conservative...but the bottom line is that if you step out of line, they'll cane you or kill you.

At least in the liberal nations you don't lose your life for breaking small laws. But it's all theoretical....there's no such place as a conservative nation.

And conservatives seem to love the United State, which is a liberal nation.....so I suppose they'd rather live in one too.
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Bladerunner on Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:39 pm

I dunno, Doc, nothing is perfect in this world. In my studies in quantum physics, I learned that this is a universe of duality, everything has its opposite--dark and light, night and day, negative and positive, up and down, in and out, back and forth, right and left, man and woman, good and evil. There is no such thing as a Utopian reality, and there is nowhere, in a relative sense, one can go to find it.

The one thing that puzzles me is the seeming contradiction between your claim that America, a liberal nation, is a police state and the police are out of control--beating, arresting and even killing people for "breaking small laws" and, in some cases, for breaking no law at all.

For my part, Doc, I am doing my best to maintain a low profile, to stay out of the line of fire. I have reduced my lifestyle to its lowest common denominator. It's as simple as I can get it at the moment. I have little faith in politicians of any stripe. Maybe one will emerge bearing the standard of honor and morality, but I ain't holding my breath. As the good Book says, "it is better to trust the Lord than to put confidence in man."
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by swiftfoxmark2 on Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:38 pm

Blade, I think many of us want to be left alone. Doc's own profession is under assault by moral busybodies with Obamacare. I've managed to stay under the radar myself, mostly because I'm a software developer and don't need to work for the government. I also have kept my nose clean, save for a few traffic violations.

But the actions that Wikileaks has taken, regardless of the reasons behind it, have highlighted what our Utopian-minded leaders have done on our behalf. They spent their days lying and gossiping about foreign leaders, allowing foreign nations to demand we put our soldiers' lives on the line for them, and then have the gall to be offended when it all comes out. These are wicked people who run our nation and they will not be content with people like you and me just staying under their radar.

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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by swiftfoxmark2 on Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:43 pm

Here's my response to my claim that conservatives are murderous:

http://swiftfoxmark2.blogspot.com/2010/12/why-i-left-conservatives.html

While Barbara Simpson isn't a Rush Limbaugh, she certainly has expressed sentiments that are shared by many conservative pundits.

I would've put this in the blog section, but I haven't been able publish the video to Youtube yet.

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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Bladerunner on Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:42 am

Barbara Simpson is a light weight, Swifty, when it comes to substantive analysis. She would not be my choice as a model for conservative thought.

Per the Wikileaks fiasco, personally, I think J.R. Dunn has expressed a much more intriguing assessment than any I have thus far read. I posted his entire article on this site. See: "A new kind of Warfare."
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by swiftfoxmark2 on Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:26 am

Lightweight or not, what she has said is probably more direct than what others have said. Newt Gingrich wants to classify Assange as a enemy combatant, for example.

Others have stated outright that the leaks are detrimental to national security, yet they fail to point out what specific documents have endangered our lives.

And I'd like to know if we are being coerced into another endless war with a Muslim country by foreign governments, wouldn't you?

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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Doc Trock on Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:56 pm

swiftfoxmark2 wrote:Lightweight or not, what she has said is probably more direct than what others have said. Newt Gingrich wants to classify Assange as a enemy combatant, for example.

Others have stated outright that the leaks are detrimental to national security, yet they fail to point out what specific documents have endangered our lives.

And I'd like to know if we are being coerced into another endless war with a Muslim country by foreign governments, wouldn't you?

Do you trust the state? If so, then Wikileaks is horrible! Why, they've embarrassed the state.

Or, like me, do you distrust the state? If so, Wikileaks is a courageous action to expose their lying, bullying, corrupt ways. (no one has denied any of the information that was leaked.....they only make up things to smear the messenger.)

I don't believe the state. I consider them an enemy to freedom. I hate them. I do not wish them well. I want them to go away.

Short of that, anything that can get people to withdraw their consent is a step in the right direction. Wikileaks has done that.
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Bladerunner on Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:02 pm

I am most assuredly no lover of the state, Doc, not only do I distrust the state, I see it as the epitome of evil on earth.

However, Wikileaks has done nothing to benefit anyone. The released documents have revealed nothing that those in the know were not already aware of. This may have embarrassed a few, but it certainly fell far short of its intended goals. All this really did was unleash a new wave of anarchists and discombobulated fools. If these are the kind of people we need to "withdraw their consent" then we might as well throw in the towel. IMO, Julian Assange is a self-absorbed amateur, an intellectual buffoon.

If you want to read something alarming, something with substance, read the 10 failures of the U.S. Government on the Domestic Islamic Threat.


LINK
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Doc Trock on Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:10 pm

I'll get on that link later today!
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by imaginethat on Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:00 am

Here's what I find funny, as in odd.

Conservatives will savage liberals for their "relativism," and then turn around and use relativism as a reason to support Rs over Ds.

I'm damned tired of "we're better than the other guys and that makes us good," and every thinking American should be, too.

Only, they're not, and that's the problem. Good Americans keep going for and defending the lesser of two evils. Tirelessly. Endlessly.

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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by Doc Trock on Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:37 am

This is a bit of a brutal statement, but I can certainly back it up:

Conservatives=Pharisees

No....not each and every conservative is a pharisee, but most of them are, especially the religious right.

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. 4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do to be seen by men.

Just think of all the things conservatives say....but never do. Pay close attention to their personal lives and note that these champions of morality are often serial adulterers.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

this describes their policies pretty well (not the main context of the verse, but an application can be made) They pay lip service to things that don't matter (meaningless tax cuts, pro-life rhetoric) while totally neglecting the important things; federal reserve, massive deficits, continued funding of abortion, etc.

25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

I don't think I need to comment on the hypocrisy that reigns supreme in the conservative movement....just look at marriage and divorce records of the leaders of the conservative movement. Then, look at their business dealings, and finally look at how their personal fortunes synch up with public policy.

29 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, 'If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.'
31 "Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Briefly, conservatives often wax eloquent about the founding fathers and the constitution....they blame other people for the nations problems, claiming that they would not do the things that caused the problems....but as soon as they're in power they do exactly the things they said they wouldn't do.....

And they excoriate those who actually do live up to a conservative ideal and try to destroy such a person.....

Pharisees! BTW, the only people Jesus had harsh words and physical violence towards were the pharisees.....they turned their religion into a means of getting rich.

I didn't do my assertion justice here....and conservatives themselves would NEVER agree to what I've said! The first thing out of their mouths, having read what I said, would first launch a personal attack on me for being a libertarian, and would then blame the dems and the media for never reporting about how "good people in the conservative movement" are never reported on, and how they focus only on the few bad apples, etc.

But I'm looking at what they actually do....which can best be described as being antithetical to what they say.....hypocrites.
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Re: WikiLeaks is freedom in action

Post by mason on Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:26 pm

Doc Trock wrote:I agree 100%.

I was in the "treason" camp for a while, but something just didn't sit well. I did some thinking, then read some of the cables.

Assange is a hero. God Bless and keep him from the evil empire that is the United State.
Weren't you supposed to be moving to Uraguay or someplace by now?

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