Something interesting is going on over at that other forum!

[dsmbaptist]

Hey gang!

SND over at that other forum posted a sticky the other day that got me to thinking:

Greetings,

I want to do something. I think many people here also would like to do something. We need to change not just our President, but the way our society thinks and operates. That's a big undertaking. But, it needs to be done to save America.

I don't want to see America go down in flames. It's gotten so bad that almost half the country would pay good money to see that very thing. And why? Because of the infiltration of Marxist ideas in our society.

At this point, and with very limited funds, I think the only thing we can do is post about this to the world. We may not show up in many search engines. But, there is a constant flood of traffic to our site by all sorts of people.

I propose that we change the home page into a WordPress blog. In fact, I have already done this. But, it's not the official home page just yet. Being a blog we can leave comments and have them viewed by anyone visiting. The forum will still be private, by membership only.

To see what I'm talking about, go here http://www.covertconservatives.com/ccblog/

Any writers out there who want to post an article? We need ideas and links. We can also create other "pages" to group like-ideas. Let me know what you think.

Now, I don't really give a crap about what *THEY* are doing, but please hear me out. I think that SND *might* have come up with a good idea to help promote their site, and I think that we might be wise to steal his idea for this forum. What are your thoughts on this?

I think that we are better than they are because we think outside the box and can out-debate them on the issues. As far as trying to educate neocons, forget it...I'd have an easier time teaching my cat to roller skate backward! I say, let's not just steal their ideas, let's improve upon them. I know that we can, because we have truth on our side!

[swiftfoxmark2]

I'm half tempted to offer to blog on their site. I would make it a personal rule to not respond to any comments, although I may collect criticisms and respond to them in a post later.

But I have a suspicion that I'd be kicked out quickly.

[dsmbaptist]

By the way, SND has taken up a new hobby...making stupid and easily debunk-able comments on my Facebook page. I remember a few months ago that he threatened to shut down the forum, because he claimed that the forum was not getting much traffic. Well, of course it's not getting any traffic. First, people are catching wind of the unfair way that Ron Paul supporters (Especially Imaginethat and Doc Trock) are treated there (Thanks to my big mouth on Facebook, LOL!) and secondly, people in general are slowly waking up to the errors of NEOCONSERVISM, so go figure! As you can predict, his usual band of supporters filled up a couple of pages, and his proposal was quickly shot down.

[dsmbaptist]

STOP THE PRESSES!

I just heard Tatulip over at Coverts say this:

You know what, I am SO SICK TO DEATH of every politician right now that I am leaning toward supporting Ron Paul. I don't really even care anymore what his positions are on anything else, he's the only one that seems to "get" our financial problems. :stress:

OMIGAWD! I guess that miracles do happen once in awhile!

[swiftfoxmark2]

Will an apology be forthcoming?

[dsmbaptist]

Will an apology be forthcoming?

I dunno, but I challenged her in a very polite and sincere way to come join us at the Iowa Straw Poll on August 13th and vote for Ron Paul. Only time will tell if she's starting to see things our way.


In the meantime, that thread has degenerated into the typical Covert Conservatives Ron Paul Hate thread....Typical!

[Doc Trock]

IT and I just got banned AGAIN.....from Pixie's forum. No reason. No parting email....just banned. (unless there is a software glitch....)

I think I'm nearly done with these forums. Republicans, especially of the neoconservative persuasion, are mean, vile, willfully ignorant people.

Pearls before swine is the metaphor......I don't care much anymore.

I don't want to "save" America either. I just want to be left alone and live free.

[dsmbaptist]

Hi Doc, LTNC!

It might be a software glitch. I know that after awile of not posting over at Pixie's, I had to re-register. If I remember correctly, Pixie said that her site was hacked, and she had to start all over again. Since she's a member her, send her a PM...Maybe it's a mis-communication.


(Besides---I once thought that Pixie and Alamo were GF and BF, due to some mis-communication!)

[swiftfoxmark2]

Welcome to banned by Pixie club.

I wonder if I could create a badge or something for that on this forum....

[dsmbaptist]

Welcome to banned by Pixie club.

I wonder if I could create a badge or something for that on this forum....

Huh? You got banned by Pixie, too? WTF? Okay...out with it...what did you say to get banned there?

For ther record, I haven't been banned there, and secondly, I can't believe that she would ban either one of you.

[swiftfoxmark2]

I pointed out that a judge in Florida had no right to take up a conflict between two Muslims who had agreed to use a private court system. They didn't like the fact that a court system such as ours could have competition.

I also pointed out that if you were a Muslim immigrating here, wouldn't you rather use a private court system, given your own views on the United States, however misguided they may be?

[dsmbaptist]

Wow...I guess that Pixie only wants Republicans on her forum...I thought that she was above that partisan crap!

[swiftfoxmark2]

I think it had more to do with a newcomer making the veteran posters feel uncomfortable.

[Doc Trock]

I think it had more to do with a newcomer making the veteran posters feel uncomfortable.

I think Pixie was OK with me. However, I think she got a constant barage of negative feedback from a few others regarding things I would say and it just got to be too much for her.

On a personal level, she was always gracious and kind.

I never insulted anyone, and never returned the many insults that were thrown my way.

I did have the annoying habit of posting true things and being able to back them up. When they were negative towards Obama everything was fine. When they were negative towards Bush or republicans....that's when the trouble started.

Political parties are very deeply ingrained into some people, and criticizing them is like insulting a family member for these folks. They know they're right and the other party is wrong, and nothing will change that.

It's like battered wife syndrome mixed with pride......you just can't get through to them and trying will only get you in trouble.

God help us if they control the country.....

[dsmbaptist]

I think it had more to do with a newcomer making the veteran posters feel uncomfortable.

I think Pixie was OK with me. However, I think she got a constant barage of negative feedback from a few others regarding things I would say and it just got to be too much for her.

On a personal level, she was always gracious and kind.

I never insulted anyone, and never returned the many insults that were thrown my way.

I did have the annoying habit of posting true things and being able to back them up. When they were negative towards Obama everything was fine. When they were negative towards Bush or republicans....that's when the trouble started.

Political parties are very deeply ingrained into some people, and criticizing them is like insulting a family member for these folks. They know they're right and the other party is wrong, and nothing will change that.

It's like battered wife syndrome mixed with pride......you just can't get through to them and trying will only get you in trouble.

God help us if they control the country.....

Wow...Sounds like LetFreedomBeTrue turned into a light version of Covert Conservatives!

[swiftfoxmark2]

Pretty much, yeah.

[swiftfoxmark2]

Vox Day has an interesting take on dealing with it:

In his Rhetoric, Aristotle noted that for some audiences, "not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction." I would go even further and suggest that for some audiences, conviction remains impossible. The behavior that McInnes is describing is indicative of precisely such an audience. Appeals to Aristotelian dialectic - otherwise known as logic - is useless and will accomplish absolutely nothing, as McInnes recounts in his story. If you are reduced to explaining "all dogs are not cats", you are most certainly dealing with an audience of the sort that Aristotle deemed susceptible only to rhetoric.

The rhetorical audience relies heavily, indeed, almost entirely, upon appeals to authority and emotion. That is why they usually drift toward tangents concerning motivations, because they are attempting to impinge the authority to which they believe their opponent is appealing. (The alternative is emotional appeals, which are self-evident.) This makes little sense when the "authority" is mere factual reality, but since facts rely upon sources, any such sources provided can always be attacked, which in the eye of the rhetorical audience is somehow tantamount to refutation. "I have rebutted it because I said it was wrong" is a commonly heard formulation.

The thing that must be kept in mind when dealing with a rhetorical audience is that it doesn't know very much and isn't very intelligent. That's why rhetoricians usually rely upon others to do their thinking for them. Establish that you are not only more intelligent than they are, but more intelligent than their precious authorities as well, and they have literally no recourse beyond the usual game of evasion and aspersion.

The first step is confrontation. Being accustomed to groupthink, this throws them immediately off-kilter. They will respond with all the sarcasm and heated emotion that McInnes describes. This is where many conservatives make a mistake and back down for fear of social disruption, but the important thing to remember is that you have not caused it and you are not responsible for it. Barring job interviews, there is no situation wherein etiquette that demands mindless acquiescence to every provocative assertion. But don't meet heat with heat, meet it with ice, although calm words combined with a slight half-smile can be useful if you wish to entirely emotionally discombobulate the rhetorician.

The next step is to cow them. This is best used through application of the Socratic method. Don't make any assertions, simply ask questions that will reveal, to them and everyone else, how devoid of actual knowledge they are. This is frightfully easy because most rhetoricians are prone to instinctive lying. If you are sufficiently well-informed, you can simply methodically expose each of their lies as they are presented. Credentials can be useful at this point; remember, you're not dealing with a dialectical audience here that is capable of recognizing logical fallacies. I occasionally find it more amusing to "win" an argument using an argument I know to be fallacious because my interlocutor is too inept to spot the flaw in it than by using a correct one, but then, I am an Award-Winning Cruelty Artist so I don't recommend this to the average dialectician.

Finally, once they have been sufficiently cowed, it is time to destroy them. This comes in three forms, the Implosion, the Submission, or the Run Away Run Away. I am always impressed when a rhetorical crowd is able to submit, because it indicates that they have at least understood that their position is wrong and they are theoretically capable of learning. The Implosion is probably the most satisfying, simply because it is funny. I enjoy few things more than watching an arrogant and overmatched individual publicly go into a complete emotional meltdown because he simply cannot bear to admit that he was wrong. Of course, the point isn't the pleasure one might take in it, but rather, that everyone who witnesses the Implosion will recognize that the position was untenable.

And then there is the response we see so often on this blog, which is the Run Away Run Away response, which in its Internet form is better described as the Retreat Into Silence. PZ Myers is a good example of this response, which involves leaving your stunned well-wishers grasping at ever increasingly improbable explanations for your failure to even attempt to defend your position.

Anyhow, the next time a clueless member of the rhetorical crowd is emitting sarcastic commentaries, casting aspersions about your motivations, or showing signs of wanting to wave a finger in your face, just remember the acronym CCD. Confront, Cow, Destroy. The additional benefit, in addition to peace of mind, is that not only will rhetoricians soon become reluctant to so much as cluck any absurdities in your direction, but women also tend to view everyone else's intellectual fear of you as social dominance, which naturally enhances your attractiveness to them.

Sure, they may well complain to all and sundry that you're a jerk and so forth. But remember, translated from chickspeak, all that means is that they wish you'd hit on them.

[dsmbaptist]

I think it had more to do with a newcomer making the veteran posters feel uncomfortable.

I think Pixie was OK with me. However, I think she got a constant barrage of negative feedback from a few others regarding things I would say and it just got to be too much for her.

On a personal level, she was always gracious and kind.I never insulted anyone, and never returned the many insults that were thrown my way.

I did have the annoying habit of posting true things and being able to back them up. When they were negative toward Obama everything was fine. When they were negative toward Bush or republicans....that's when the trouble started.
.....

That is what I think we need to point out here---This thread is not, I repeat, a "BASH PIXIE" thread, by any means, and Pixie, if you are reading this---We are not picking on you! Apparently, Doc and Swifty are witnessing the same foul treatment at the hands of a few members at letfreedombetrue that they encountered at Covert Conservatives.

Pixie...we love you, sweetie!

[Doc Trock]

I think it had more to do with a newcomer making the veteran posters feel uncomfortable.

I think Pixie was OK with me. However, I think she got a constant barage of negative feedback from a few others regarding things I would say and it just got to be too much for her.

On a personal level, she was always gracious and kind.

I never insulted anyone, and never returned the many insults that were thrown my way.

I did have the annoying habit of posting true things and being able to back them up. When they were negative towards Obama everything was fine. When they were negative towards Bush or republicans....that's when the trouble started.

Political parties are very deeply ingrained into some people, and criticizing them is like insulting a family member for these folks. They know they're right and the other party is wrong, and nothing will change that.

It's like battered wife syndrome mixed with pride......you just can't get through to them and trying will only get you in trouble.

God help us if they control the country.....

Wow...Sounds like LetFreedomBeTrue turned into a light version of Covert Conservatives!

Conservatives tend to be that way.....they generally do not have a live and let live attitude. Given the power, they'd probably execute whole segments of society. Underneath the church clothes they're mostly mean, viscous people.

I'm laughing at a post a few up from this where someone claims to be "leaning towards Ron Paul," despite his "other" views, because he's the only one who seems to understand the financial trouble the nation is in.



These poor conservatives can't seem to understand:

1.)the other candidates WANT huge deficits, big government, spending, etc. It's not that they aren't smart enough to do the math, they WANT these things because they personally, and their controllers, BENEFIT from it!!!!!

2.)It is precisely the "other views" that Paul has that would enable the government to shrink. Empires are expensive, and the neocons love empires.

There's not much hope for these people.....

[dsmbaptist]

These poor conservatives can't seem to understand:

1.)the other candidates WANT huge deficits, big government, spending, etc. It's not that they aren't smart enough to do the math, they WANT these things because they personally, and their controllers, BENEFIT from it!!!!!

2.)It is precisely the "other views" that Paul has that would enable the government to shrink. Empires are expensive, and the neocons love empires.

There's not much hope for these people.....

My friend...you have just described the Herman Cain supporter! (Actually, you described all of the GOP candidate supporters, except of course, Ron Paul supporters)

[dsmbaptist]

Since I have everyone's attention...

I know that Carl was not everyone's favorite, but his cancer seems to be taking it's toll on him lately. This is an entry from Fatherducque:

I paid Carl a visit the week before last. I would have posted earlier, except I was on a whirlwind tour of the Northeast and did not have a good chance to compose something.

Carl MAY post in the future if he can get better control of his fingers. That is an iffy thing. He is able to follow all of us on the forum.

We had a good chat. He is more alert than I am on a good day. He showed us (my wife and I) his impressive knife collection, and directed me to his library. We learned a good bit about our friend Carl.

Carl is real sick but drives himself to lead as close to a normal life as he can. His various systems are not working too well, but he makes do by being in tune with when and how much of things he can do. He is very thin. When I was there he had just had a treatment that had the potential to restore some use to his right hand.

His knife collection was interesting, but was really surprised me was his library. He has a “man cave” that is virtually walled with books. Due to his difficulty with stairs, he had to direct me to it, and couldn’t give me a tour. Due to the enormity of it, I didn’t fully comprehend what I saw until Carl told me a little more of it. Carl reads A LOT and has acquired and read a large number of quality books; leather bound first editions among them.

We mostly talked about his work (my technically astute wife was also engaged in this). He is very proud of the quality of the things he has been able to create. His craft is very complex and requires a great deal of understanding of chemistry, physical chemistry, process engineering and control theory. Atomizing a slurry in a predictable manner may not impress you all very much, but it absolutely mystifies me (my wife understood what he was explaining though…LOL). I would have loved to have worked with him…he did the kind of thing that I always loved to do, but never worked with someone as competent as Carl.

We also talked about family things. Carl’s family is being supportive of him in the best ways they know how. They keep him stocked with food and beverages and tidy up things around the house. He is not being neglected.

We had hoped to pay him a visit on our return leg, but our commitments and the realities of time and distance did not allow it. :noparty:

[dsmbaptist]

I did have the annoying habit of posting true things and being able to back them up. When they were negative towards Obama everything was fine. When they were negative towards Bush or republicans....that's when the trouble started.

Political parties are very deeply ingrained into some people, and criticizing them is like insulting a family member for these folks. They know they're right and the other party is wrong, and nothing will change that.

It's like battered wife syndrome mixed with pride......you just can't get through to them and trying will only get you in trouble.

God help us if they control the country.....

Doc, I need to repost this (On Facebook) with your kind permission!

[dsmbaptist]

Opps! I already did!

[dsmbaptist]

And on a more serious note...The love affair between Ron Paul and Tatulip is over...She hears one widdle speach by Michelle Bachman, and the deal is off... Honestly, these neocon people have no backbone or effing concept of liberty at all!

[swiftfoxmark2]

Except that Bachman is not Presidential material.

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